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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  April 6, 2016 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT

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rally at temple university in philadelphia. the fight for pennsylvania and new york heating up with cnn's democratic debate just more than a week away. we'll be following it all. we're back at 11:00 eastern. right now "cnn tonight" with don lemon. donald trump doubling down tonight in the wake of his wisconsin loss to ted cruz. but can anything save the gop convention payoffs? >> he is lyin' ted. i came up with it. but you have to spell it right. l-y-i-n apostrophe. >> donald can always be counted on to take the high road and demonstrate class. if he wants to engage in insults, he's welcome to do so. he gets very angry when the voters reject him. >> you can't make this stuff up.
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this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. the republicans scrambling to avoid what looks to be inevitable, a contested convention. the democrats not necessarily singing kumbaya ahead of our cnn debate next week and new york's primaries april 19th. >> if we stand together and fight for a progressive agenda, we can, in fact, change that. change can happen when we stand together. >> some of his ideas just won't work because the numbers don't add up. others won't even pass congress or they rely on republican governors suddenly having a conversion experience and becoming progressives. well, in a number of important areas, he doesn't have a plan at all. >> donald trump just finished speaking to a cheering crowd on long island. the candidate optimistic, despite his crucial loss in wisconsin.
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and looking ahead to what he predicts will be a victory in new york in two weeks. >> and you know, a poll came out today that's through the roof. my standing in new york. you know what makes me happiest? when the people that know me best, and, boy, do you know me well. but when the people that know me the best think so much that they have poll numbers that nobody can believe. we're going to do great. and i have to say, in two weeks, meaning two weeks from yesterday, go vote because we have momentum. we have a movement. and we're going to turn this country around so fast, so fast. so you have to get out and vote. >> several protesters were taken out of the hall during trump's speech tonight. there's a lot going on. who better to talk about the battle for delegates on both sides than dan pfeiffer, former senior adviser to barack obama and ali fleisher, press
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secretary to president george w. bush. good to have both of you. hope you're having a good evening. ari, the contest moves to new york. and donald trump maintains a big lead here with ted cruz coming in third behind trump and kasich. do you have any doubt at this point that we're going to end up with a contested convention? >> i think it looks increasingly likely that we'll have a contested convention. i try to resist the temptation to draw a conclusion after every primary. let the voters in each state decide what happens. stop swinging from it's over to it's in the middle to it's just beginning. trump is going to win. cruz is going to win. let the voters in each state decide. that's how a proper primary process should continue. >> let's talk a little more. given the reports today of some infighting in the trump campaign and a potential shakeup there with campaign manager corey lewandowski, if neither
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candidate reaches this magic number of 1,237, who is in the best position here? >> well, if neither candidate wins, donald trump will probably be in the better position. the front runner typically is getting 50% to 60% to 70% of the votes and delegates because they've consolidated the party behind them. trump has only won 38.1% of the vote and 46.7% of the delegates. he's below a majority threshold this deep into the primary season. that's his problem. there's a wall of resistance to trump. he's got 35% to 45% highly energized but having a very difficult time closing with that final 10% gap to get to a majority. >> liget's talk about the democrats. a big win for bernie sanders. he's won seven of the last eight races. it's an uphill battle.
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no doubt he has momentum now. do you see any scenario where he catches up with hillary clinton? maybe a contested convention for the democrats? do you see that in any way? >> i don't. i think bernie sanders has had a good run here. i don't think it's necessarily momentum. a series of states in which his voters make up the -- if you were earlier in the race where he's more diverse, larger southern states that hillary clinton does well in came in a row. so the math is -- it's not impossible but for him to make up the two-thirds of delegates he's going to need to make given the proportional system. there's going to be a few more battles here. new york will be fairly decisive. you look at the remaining states it seems virtually impossible for bernie sanders to make up this gap before the convention. >> i'm going to play something for you. this is hillary clinton speaking with my colleague chris cuomo this morning. he asked her about a warning given by the sanders campaign.
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listen to this. >> you may have heard that senator sanders campaign manager jeff weaver said something very interesting inflammatory on our air here saying that, you know, the clinton campaign, secretary clinton, they need to be careful not to destroy the democratic party, merely in pursuit of her own ambition to be president. very strong words. your response to that idea? >> well, i mean, it's just ludicrous on the face of it. i have been campaigning for democrats, fund-raising for democrats, recruiting democrats to run and win for a really long time. i think about 40 years. and senator sanders by his own admission has never even been a democrat. >> wow. so they were very cordial, you know, not so long ago. have these two candidates lost patience with each other? >> well, yeah. they've been running against each other for a very long time. the sanders campaign is frustrated they have not -- that they're not winning and can see
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the math where this goes. and i remember the exact same position in 2008 versus hillary clinton and hillary clinton is now in. bernie sanders, you know you've basically won. your opponent refuses to get out of the race. is continuing to put pressure on you, and ultimately hillary clinton is looking down the road at donald trump or ted cruz and wants to start focussing on the general and still has to compete with bernie sanders. it's clear that people are tired. they're stressed. they're getting irritated with each other. this happens in campaigns. the question will be, how are they able to put it back together at the end of the race, and can bernie sanders endorse hillary clinton? is she able to make a solid intrigue to his supporters because that will be necessary to winning in november. >> we'll talk about that later. ari, i thought this was very interesting. this open letter that you penned to donald trump. five things you say he should do. stop fighting with everybody and don't be so nasty. get your facts right.
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number three is learn more policy. four, make policy announcements. and five, stop citing polls. it sounds like you're telling him not to be donald trump. >> well, in part to not be donald trump. i do think that any candidate has to learn and adjust as they go along if they're going to win. he's done the work of getting that 35% to 45%. he has to stop pushing those voters away. his tweets and some of his approach approach approaches on issues are pushing people away. my advice is to stop doing some of those things if he wants to win. at the end of the day, don, i want whoever the republican is to be in a position to win in november. and that would apply to ted cruz or donald trump or whoever it might be. i think it's going to be one of those two. that's why i wrote the open letter to donald trump. i don't think he'll be able to put together a coalition that's a majority. if he can't win a majority of republicans, what makes him
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think he can win a majority of americans? >> i was going to ask you if you thought it was too late for him. the retweeting of things and -- is it too late? >> well, we'll see. it's up to donald trump. it's not too late because this still is a contested race. somebody has to win it. no one is winning it yet. it's not too late for him. if policy speeches, he absolutely can do. how much he needs to tone it down, that's up to him. he can still be provocative. it's a hand on a dial. does he need to be at 10 all the time or occasionally go down to seven or eight. >> bernie sanders is getting slammed over his interview with the new york daily news, not having key answers over parts of his stump speech. he also said he doesn't think sandy hook victims should be allowed to sue gun manufacturers. those victims want an apology. here's what he told cbs news tonight. >> what happened at sandy hook is a tragedy beyond
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comprehension. but maybe secretary clinton might want to apologize to the families who lost their loved ones in iraq or secretary clinton might want to apologize to the millions of workers in this country who lost their jobs because of the disastrous trade agreements that she supported. >> dan, does this hurt him? >> yes, i don't think it's going to be decisive, but by all accounts, that interview with the daily news was sort of a disaster. he doesn't have basic answers to not complex arcane policy questions but the very fundamental things he talks about on the trail every day which is somewhat the difference between a message candidate, which is how bernie sanders started this race and somebody who is trying to be president. with democratic voters, his position on liability protections for gun manufacturers is very problematic. and the clinton campaign has taken advantage of that and exploited that opening throughout the race. i was confused. at one point he had gone back and changed his position but then reversed it again in this
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issue. so, i mean, it was very curious how that whole thing went down. ultimately, interviews don't decide a whole heck of a lot but it was a missed opportunity for the candidate. he's been forces to answer questions. >> he's trying to deflect criticism here. do you think he made it worse? if i were a parent of t sandy hook victim and he compared the loss of my child to the loss of a job. >> if you are a sandy hook parent and this is your issue, you'll never vote for him. a lot question secretary clinton's sincerity. they think she does things for political purposes. in politics you exchange fire, so to speak. she says one thing about him. he changes the subject and says something else about her. that's bernie sanders' only defense of that inside a democratic primary. >> fleisher, dan pfeiffer,
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appreciate it. see you soon. hillary clinton and bernie sanders will go head-to-head in cnn's democratic presidential debate in brooklyn next thursday night at 9:00 eastern. when we come right back on this broadcast, those rumors of a shakeup in the trump campaign. is the man who ran "the apprentice" about to tell somebody you're fired. and is it too little, too late? i take these out...
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so i feel like i'm ready to take on anything. ted cruz's big victory over donald trump is wisconsin. there's greater chance than ever the gop is headed towards a
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contested convention. joining me now kayleigh mcenany who is supporting trump, buck sexton, who is supporting cruz and the form er campaign manage for mitt romney. ted cruz said it's a turning point in this race. do you believe that? is it a turning point? >> i don't. if you go on real clear politics and look at the polls, of the 12 polls that came out in wisconsin since january you see ted cruz was leading in eight of them. so this was never going to be trump's state. it was never demographically his state. nate cohen of "the new york times" made that argument. it's a great night for cruz. no doubt about it, but i don't think it's detrimental to trump going forward. >> i want to talk about these statements he put out. he was handed a big loss last night but didn't do a concession speech. usually candidates do that. hillary clinton didn't do it either. here's a statement he put out.
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donald j. trump listed the onslaught of the establishment, lyin' ted cruz had the governor of wisconsin, many conservative talk radio show hosts and the entire party apparatus behind him. not only propelled by the anti-trump superpacs spending countless of dollars on false advertising against mr. trump but he was coordinate with his own superpacs which is illegal who totally control him. he's worse than a puppet. he say trojan horse trying to steal the nomination from mr. trump. that was a very cordial statement. should he have come out and spoken even though he lost and just congratulated his opponent? >> i don't know if he needs to speak but he needs to not do this. coming out and accusing the campaign of illegally coordinate with pacs is just something he's going to continue to say.
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the whole issue of stolen delegates or stolen elections is prominent. they realize this is going to a contested convention and that's not going to be favorable ground for a whole bunch of reasons for donald trump. it will be more so for ted cruz. they want to get everyone worked up over this. this is like a kid that loses in a board game and flips it over and runs and cries to mom. even my secret trump supporter friends are like, this was not good. they need to take away.twitter right after high loses something like this and make sure he doesn't make any crazy statements. >> i will give you that. if you are pitching poorly in a game you don't blame the umpire. it's always better to say it wasn't a good night and move into, there was cheating ng involved. >> trump and cruz people coming together. how about that. there are rumors the campaign staff shakeups. trump met with paul manafort, right? does this is a anything about
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the future role of his campaign manager corey lewandowski. are these shakeups going to be standard right now? >> well, it ain't good. they don't bring somebody in when everything is going great. and corey lewandowski has had a really bad couple of weeks. he battered a woman. he's under criminal investigation for it. >> allegedly. >> no, there's a video. i think that's a pretty good charge. he's been having to defend corey lewandowski. as a campaign operative you'd like to not be the story. corey has decided to play this role of cheap thug on the trump campaign. and people that are serious over there are maybe saying enough is enough. this guy clearly isn't up to the task. hasn't even thought about the convention process. they are just now bringing somebody in that's supposed to be an expert on this stuff, although he hasn't done a convention in 40 years. i'm not really sure what kind of magic they are planning to pull out of their hat. but there's clearly trouble in river city and the trump
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campaign is in disarray. >> do you know anything, kayleigh? any inside information about shake-ups? >> i don't know anything about the internal shakeups but paul manafort was with ford, ronald reagan, george h., george w. that's a good record. >> not sure about that. >> he's going to shake this up and change it around and be more delegate focussed. the will of the people should matter more than 2400 delegates but who am i to say that. >> a quote in "the washington post." trump campaign spokesperson. in real estate he builds a building. doesn't matter who the marble vendor is or carpet vendor or who is providing the furniture or who is the designer. his name is on the building, and it's his product. he sort of approached the campaign similarly. my name is on this and nobody else really matters. so given the stumbles of the last couple of weeks, do you think there needs to be more guidance? and more importantly, would he even take more guidance? >> hope is largely right that part of the reason he's
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succeeded so far is because he's the one saying this is my brand. i'm going to focus on these things and be authentic. i'm not going to poll test everything coming out of my mouth. the philosophy let trump be trump is largely right. but, yes, you need to not retweet certain things. these are minor tweaks that's need to happen. >> anyone in any professional position, in any position, you have to grow, unless you want to be in the same position that's you are forever. you must grow. i think the campaign is this growing pains or simply donald trump cannot get to the next level because that's just not who he is? >> up to this point you can offer that he really hasn't had to grow a whole lot because he's been winning so consistently. after the week he had last week which was a bad week. even people who have been stallwart trump supporters have agreed on that. given the loss in wisconsin and the mathsmatical reality looking like neither tru nor cruz can win. given all that, things like
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campaign discipline, messaging, ground game, that all really matters. that's the stuff trump hasn't had to show in the past. he's just been the media guy with the message. all that is going to make the big difference. >> katie, is he even capable of becoming something else or evolving, as they say? >> i think he's totally incapable of being something else. he's a one act guy. and we saw laugh week the first time in a long time he's had to speak to an issue. he spoke about abortion and took five positions in 48 hours. this is a guy that is not thoughtful about public policy. he shoots from the hip. and this is going to go to cleveland. and i think when we get to cleveland, those delegates, they're not random people. they are people elected by republicans across the country. >> not all of them. >> they're going to make a determination. of course they are. they're going to make a determination they want a candidate that behaves with dignity, stands for the conservative principled values that they care about and can beat hillary in november. donald trump doesn't -- >> trump or cruz at that convention --
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>> you know as well as i do that each state is in control of how delegates are allocated n appointed. some of them are elected by party leaders, some of them -- >> i think i know a lot more about the convention process than you do. >> the problem is the will of the people -- last night in wisconsin, for instance, despite voting on ted cruz, 51% of people in wisconsin says the person with the most delegates should get the nomination. even in wisconsin, a state that vote forward ted cruz. so i -- >> that's all fine and dandy. there's virtually no mechanism to hand it to somebody that doesn't have 1237 delegates. those are the rules of the convention floor. i've been -- there's no mechanism to hand it to somebody that's not achieved 1237 delegates. if donald trump doesn't get there he's not going to be the nominee. that's the case for ghef candidates. >> stand by. when we come back, john kasich reziftsing calls to drap out. belt, can he stay in the race s
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♪ no, you're not ♪ yogonna watch it! ♪tch it! ♪ ♪ we can't let you download on the goooooo! ♪ ♪ you'll just have to miss it! ♪ yeah, you'll just have to miss it! ♪ ♪ we can't let you download... uh, no thanks. i have x1 from xfinity so... don't fall for directv. xfinity lets you download your shows from anywhere. i used to like that song. donald trump leads his
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opponents in the gop delegate count. but ted cruz narrowed the gap a little bit with his victory in wisconsin. we were talking a little about that before the break. kayleigh, i want to play this for you. it's a conversation between trump ally roger stone and right wing host alex jones. >> we will have demonstrations at specific hotels where there are delegates so we can let them visually see the will of the people. we will have a daily protest. we will man the ramparts every day -- >> it's a free country. if we're staying in the hotel, we can go knock on their hotel room door, right? >> i will be able to tell you which state delegations are involved in the big steal, which party leaders are ringleaders in the big steal. we do not advocate violence. we're not talking about roughing anybody up. >> we're just talking to people.
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>> being a presence to let people feel the pressure of the american people and those who have bothered to vote in these primaries and caucuses. >> yeah, we're the victims they're openly robbing as we speak. >> that's sounds slightly ominous. is that the way you want the delegates counted? >> he said he doesn't want violence. no one wants violence. he said that explicitly. he's just trying to say, i want this to be transparent. that's fair. at least show that to the people. you have the most of the people going to vote for donald trump. we owe them transparency. >> what's about the rules are the rules. these rules have been in place for a while. this is how it's done. >> can we step back and question the rules? you have a majority of republicans in the monmouth poll saying they don't like the rules. they should be determining the rules. >> do you change it in the middle of a presidential race or when there's not a presidential race going on. >> you talk about it. you don't just say the rules are
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the rules. >> some of these rules can be changed close to the actual convention. alex jones aside who is really a conspiracy theorist. putting him on the right is rough for those of us. apart from the rules, this is what everyone is getting towards now if you don't give one of those candidates the gop nomination, there will be a nuclear meltdown within the entire conservative movement, the entire right wing. everyone is going to completely freak out. so all this talk that you are hearing about how it could be paul ryan or people are saying the white knight they'll bring in to save everyone. that's the wofrts possible idea. that's the worst imaginable. there's no way you pull together a party to unite behind a candidate if they just hand it to somebody, hail cesar style. >> it's growing tiresome to have trump supporters come on the air and try to explain away the incendiary threatening things that trump staff and the trump team are out there saying.
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roger stone is basically threatening people. there's a process in place. you have to have 1,237 delegates. there's no republican that can take the nomination from someone who hand it to somebody. you have to get the delegates. you have to earn the delegates. donald trump so far hasn't even gotten 50% of the delegates. at this point in time, mitt romney was attracting 70% of republican support in 2012. donald trump has completely flat lined. and so to suggest that the will of the people is for donald trump, the majority of republicans aren't even backing this guy. so i think the process needs to take place. it will occur at the convention. it will be a fair process. nobody is stealing anything. but there will be a fair process, and i expect that donald trump will not get 1,237 delegates on the first ballot and he'll do worse after that. >> we're not talking about cruz at all which i find strange. there's this focus in the conversation about -- >> inside this party there's been the stop trump movement.
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that's why. >> i totally understand that. >> no stop cruz movement inside of the -- >> there are a lot of people who don't like cruz but outwardly trump supporters are -- cruz and trump are viable candidates right now for the republican nomination. i feel like the focus on rules or all the talk, this is what's i was trying to get to, don. all the talk about how this is going to turn into something where john kasich or someone like that is all of a sudden going to be the nominee. i think that's counterproductive. no one can make an argument that after all the votes cast and all the rules and frg else -- >> more marco rubio, because marco rubio has 173 delegates, and kasich has 145. technically marco rubio has a better chance of being president than john kasich, at this point if you look at the delegates. >> that's a fair point. that's probably not going to change. john kasich, i love him. i like his optimism but i don't see a path forward. he was supposes to do exceedingly well in wisconsin last night. he came in third. pennsylvania emaybe a shot
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there. new york, he's in second but far, far behind. >> thank you katie, buck and kayleigh. hillary clinton takes a big shot at -- bernie sanders takes a big shot at hillary clinton in front of a cheering crowd in philadelphia. the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, the lowest taxes in decades, and new infrastructure for a new generation attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in rochester, with world-class botox. and in buffalo, where medicine meets the future. let us help grow your company's tomorrow - today - at
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breaking news out of the bernie sanders philadelphia rally tonight. sanders telling a cheering crowd that he doesn't believe hillary clinton is qualified to be president. joining me now cnn's senior political correspondent brianna keilar. i want you to listen to the comments bernie sanders just made about hillary clinton. >> secretary clinton appears to be getting a little bit nervous. we have won seven out of eight of the recent primaries and caucuses. and she has been saying lately that she thinks that i am quote/unquote, not qualified to be president.
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well, let me just say in response to secretary clinton, i don't believe that she is qualified if she is -- >> brianna keilar, it's loud where you are. why does he say that she's not qualified? >> well, he had a whole laundry list of reasons. she's not qualified because her superpac. if she's taking money through her superpac, $10 million for special interests. he also said, you know, if she voted for a number of these trade agreements. but you have to put this in context. this has been -- he had this interview with the "new york daily news" editorial board where he stumbled over a series of topics, and hillary
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clinton really made hay of that as her campaign did basically trying to charge that bernie sanders is not qualified to be president. he came out to this crowd very supportive. 10,000 people. thousands more overflow. and he said, you know, there have been charges that i am not qualified. or i don't believe you're qualified to be president if thus and this and that. the list of things i just spelled out for you. >> brianna keilar in philadelphia at a loud bernie sanders rally. i want to bring in ben jealous, and bob beckel. and maria cardona, a superdelegate committed to hillary clinton. i have to ask you, ben, what do you make of sanders' comments about hillary clinton not qualified to be president? >> i think what we're seeing is that's we're getting into a place where the race has really tightened up. we've won 7 out of 8 races. in a couple of days, 8 out of 9 races.
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the clinton campaign said they were going to attack sanders, go after him and trying to discredit and disqualify and that's what they are doing. they've chosen to go heavily negative. bernie is from brooklyn, and he will frankly defend himself. >> what do you make of it, bob? do you think him saying hillary clinton not qualified to be president? >> i think that's a bit of a reach. i talked to ted devine for some time today, sanders chief strategist who used to work for me, which is why he's so good. in the course of this, i pieced together a strategy. four states really matter to them. new york, pennsylvania, indiana and california. if they can win two of those or maybe three, they go to the convention, and here's the issue. superdelegates. they keecan't get there by pled delegates. they get there and say she's not electable. >> as you find your microphone, i'm going to turn to maria
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cardona. at first they were very cordial. they're going back and forth with each other now. she had an interview with our chris cuomo this morning basically again saying bernie sanders is -- she's saying basically he's not qualified and now -- well, let's listen to the cuomo interview and then we'll talk. >> in the interview, it seemed unclear as to whether he understood how dodd/frank worked. how we would go about breaking up banks that were posing risks to our economy. so i was, i think, a little bit surprised that there didn't seem to be a lot of substance to what he was saying. >> talking, referencing the "new york daily news" interview that many are calli ining disastrous was asked, how do you plan to go about breaking up the banks and he didn't seem to have a consistent or concrete answer. >> look, certainly, they are going into the new york primary, which is going to be very rough and tumble.
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we all knew from the from the beginning. but he's gone beyond the pail by saying he doesn't think she's qualified. she has never said she doesn't think he's qualified. what she has been saying and will continue to say all along is to contrast her experience, her knowledge, what she has done for the past 30 years and say that she believes she is more qualified to be president. and it is a very different contrast when you say that. >> i don't know about that. maybe she's not saying it so directly, but it sounds like she's saying it in the next sound bite we have. listen to this. >> okay. >> okay. where she talks about him and being in congress and really not having consistent answers. we don't have that. i'll ask you, so bernie sanders is not some newcomer to government. he's been in congress for 25 years. how can he lack detail on issues
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that have been the centerpiece of his campaign for months. >> i think that's exactly right -- >> that was for ben, but -- >> oh, yes, sorry. you said bernie. a little confused. look, that was a confusing conversation with the daily news. they kept zeroing in on the fed when they should have been talking about congress. if folks want to, you know, if folks are cur yurks there's a great article in "the new york times." bernie knows precisely what he's going to do. one on huff post. you can go to his speech on wall street. he's clear about the actions that need to be taken in congress to go ahead and essentially restore glass/steagall. he wants to update it some. restore glass/steagall which ever since fdr put it in place has protected us from a second grade depression. then president clinton, of course, not rid of it. watered it down and here came the great recession. and so the bottom line is that
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he's the only one with a plan to do it. hillary clinton has no plan to do it. and, of course, she won't release her speeches to wall street and the bacnkers who wer there promised them she'd be as good as a managing director at goldman sachs. >> bob, if he's said it in these other interviews, if bernie sanders is clear in the huffington post and "new york times," then why isn't he clear in the "new york daily news"? >> that's a good question. this is a time in a campaign when applause lines at gatherings like philadelphia. the press starts to ask specifics and you better be prepared. let me finish out what devine was talking about. if they can win 2 of 4 of those states. they know they'll not have a majority, but superdelegates are clearly their target. here's the reason why. superdelegates are not bound. they may pledge themselves to somebody but that doesn't mean anything. they switch all the time. i've had them switch in the numbers of 50 or 100 at a
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convention. they think they are going to make the argument she can't win. she's a liability. the fbi investigation could be a problem. and they should switch. and they also don't have to vote on the first ballot. they can abstain. put you but low the number you need. >> when you says irs, i thought you were going to break some other news. >> no. >> despite all the criticism sanders has, he has enthusiastic support and is on quite a roll now. why can't she put him away? >> well, because here's the issue. what i think is going on in the democratic party in terms of this back and forth between hillary and bernie, up until now has been very good for the party. it has helped mobilize democrats out there. it has helped mobilize our supporters. it has made hillary clinton a much better candidate. has made bernie sanders a much better candidate. from the beginning, hillary clinton knew this was not going to be a calk walk. she knew this was not going to be a coronation. so the question about whether
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she hasn't or has or hasn't been able to put him away, let's look at the numbers. it is right now mathematically impossible, even if she loses every single state from here until the end of the calendar for bernie sanders to catch up to her on pledged delegates. and the problem with a theory about what they now want to do with superdelegates after they were talking about how undemocratic superdelegates were is that there has never been an instance where superdelegates have overturned the will of the people. meaning superdelegates have never gone and flipped to give the candidate with the less number of pledge delegates at the convention their support so that they could get over the threshhold. that's not going to happen this tomb around either. >> to maria's point because the sanders campaign has been talking about this. it's one thing to imply this race is undemocratic and hillary clinton only winning because of the superdelegates. she is beating sanders in
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pledged delegates as well. your campaign is simply behind. is that not the case? >> look, we are behind. we're also catching up. we've won eight of the last nine. most of those by landslides. it's not impossible. it's a steep climb. it is not impossible. and what's -- you know, what's quite real is that, you know, we are going up against a candidate who has the highest negatives of any front-runner we've ever seen in the democratic party. who performs the worst in head-to-head against any of the likely republicans. and that's a real issue. so we need to be having a conversation about the voters in the states coming up. they really need to be thinking about not just who they think is going to win their state, it tends to be us in the second half, but quite frankly, who is the best one to make sure the republicans do not get back in the white house and every poll says that that's bernie sanders. >> stay with me, everyone. hillary clinton and bernie
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sanders claim a home court advantage in new york. but will that help either of them on our cnn debate next thursday? brooklyn? we'll talk about that.
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will cl cl did
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take her below the number and then you have a second ballot and have a shot. >> you want to respond to that, ben? >> you know, look. we continue to do much better. we got to halftime of the last super tuesday. since then we've won -- >> what are you saying? you have to -- >> if you have -- >> he's saying it's >> hold on for a second. >> it's not going to happen. >> but just hold on for a second, all right? why would the clinton campaign be so nervous, why would they be talking to discredit and disqualify us? so aggressively if it's a cake
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walk from here on out? and quite frankly what we've heard is that we would have to win by an average of about 55%, 56%. the reason they're not using that talking point anymore -- >> an average of 77%. it would be 77% to win. >> so what i know is that from the very beginning they said that they had no chance, we continued to defy the odds. our activists continue to defy the odds and quite frankly, we are going up against a candidate who is deeply flawed and, you know, about whom there are many serious questions about whether she can even win if she comes up against any of the likely republicans and as a party we will have to deal with that. >> ben, i want to ask you this as well. bernie sanders has not done well with people of color. new york is a very diverse place as you well know. doesn't he need to make inroads here in new york and diversity?
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>> first of all, we won hawaii. they figured out that hawaii was 27% white and they slowed up a second and flipped them around pretty quickly. let's be clear. where there's been a challenge has been in the black community. we've done well in the latino -- with latinos in many places. we won the most ever state in the country. with that said, what we've seen is that we've gone from in the teens for black support around super tuesday up to about 30 across the midwest. that trend line is still a pretty good trend line. the question as we get to the east coast is whether we can bring it up over 50% and that's what folks like us are working on. >> hang on, bob. i want to give maria the last word here. do you believe that, maria? does bernie sanders have a chance of coming back and getting more delegates than hillary clinton? >> no. i don't think that's true. even, again, even if she loses
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the remaining contest because if she does, she's not going to lose them by the margins that bernie sanders need to win them by. bernie sanders is facing electorates that are not favorable to him. new york, pennsylvania, new jersey, california, even are much more diverse and we have seen that he has not been able to crack that code. a lot of them are closed primaries. let's remember that. only democrats can vote. and hillary clinton had consistently across the ward won democrats. if you want to be the nominee of the democratic party, you should be able to win democrats. >> thanks to all of you. hillary clinton and bernie sanders will go head to head. that's next thursday night beginning at 9:00 eastern. we will be right back. want younger looking hair in 30 minutes?
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the gop well on its way to a contested convention. this is "cnn tonight." i am don lemon. donald trump is pinning his hopes on a win in new york. with a contested convention, could a stealth candidate rise up to save the day for the gop? plus the battle for what some states call religious freedom bills. some call it legalized discrimination. 'l